It has been a while since I posted Chris Hedges. He remains one of the best and fiercest social critics.
Elites
‘Have No Credibility Left’: Interview With Journalist Chris
Hedges
8
October, 2017
On
Monday, WSWS International Editorial Board Chairman David North
interviewed Chris Hedges, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist,
author, lecturer and former New
York Times correspondent.
Among Hedges’ best-known books are War
is a Force That Gives Us Meaning, The Death of the Liberal
Class, Empire
of Illusion: the End of Literacy and the Triumph of Spectacle, Days
of Destruction, Days of Revolt,
which he co-wrote with the cartoonist Joe Sacco, and Wages
of Rebellion: the Moral Imperative of Revolt.
In
an article published in Truthdig September
17, titled
“The Silencing of Dissent,” Hedges referenced the WSWS coverage
of Google’s censorship of left-wing sites and warned about the
growth of “blacklisting, censorship and slandering dissidents as
foreign agents for Russia and purveyors of ‘fake news.’”
Hedges
wrote that “the Department of Justice called on RT America and its
‘associates’—which may mean people like me—to register under
the Foreign Agent Registration Act. No doubt, the corporate state
knows that most of us will not register as foreign agents, meaning we
will be banished from the airwaves. This, I expect, is the intent.”
North’s
interview with Hedges began with a discussion of the significance of
the anti-Russia campaign in the media
David
North: How
do you interpret the fixation on Russia and the entire interpretation
of the election within the framework of Putin’s manipulation?
Chris
Hedges: It’s
as ridiculous as Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. It
is an absolutely unproven allegation that is used to perpetuate a
very frightening accusation—critics of corporate capitalism and
imperialism are foreign agents for Russia.
I
have no doubt that the Russians invested time, energy and money into
attempting to influence events in the United States in ways that
would serve their interests, in the same way that we have done and do
in Russia and all sorts of other countries throughout the world. So
I’m not saying there was no influence, or an attempt to influence
events.
But
the whole idea that the Russians swung the election to Trump is
absurd. It’s really premised on the unproven claim that Russia gave
the Podesta emails to WikiLeaks, and the release of these emails
turned tens, or hundreds of thousands, of Clinton supporters towards
Trump. This doesn’t make any sense. Either that, or, according to
the director of national intelligence, RT America, where I have a
show, got everyone to vote for the Green Party.
This
obsession with Russia is a tactic used by the ruling elite, and in
particular the Democratic Party, to avoid facing a very unpleasant
reality: that their unpopularity is the outcome of their policies of
deindustrialization and the assault against working men and women and
poor people of color. It is the result of disastrous trade agreements
like NAFTA that abolished good-paying union jobs and shipped them to
places like Mexico, where workers without benefits are paid $3.00 an
hour. It is the result of the explosion of a system of mass
incarceration, begun by Bill Clinton with the 1994 omnibus crime
bill, and the tripling and quadrupling of prison sentences. It is the
result of the slashing of basic government services, including, of
course, welfare, that Clinton gutted; deregulation, a decaying
infrastructure, including public schools, and the de facto tax
boycott by corporations. It is the result of the transformation of
the country into an oligarchy. The nativist revolt on the right, and
the aborted insurgency within the Democratic Party, makes sense when
you see what they have done to the country.
Police
forces have been turned into quasi-military entities that terrorize
marginal communities, where people have been stripped of all of their
rights and can be shot with impunity; in fact over three are killed a
day. The state shoots and locks up poor people of color as a form of
social control. They are quite willing to employ the same form of
social control on any other segment of the population that becomes
restive.
The
Democratic Party, in particular, is driving this whole Russia
witch-hunt. It cannot face its complicity in the destruction of our
civil liberties—and remember, Barack Obama’s assault on civil
liberties was worse than those carried out by George W. Bush—and
the destruction of our economy and our democratic institutions.
Politicians
like the Clintons, Pelosi and Schumer are creations of Wall Street.
That is why they are so virulent about pushing back against the
Sanders wing of the Democratic Party. Without Wall Street money, they
would not hold political power. The Democratic Party doesn’t
actually function as a political party. It’s about perpetual mass
mobilization and a hyperventilating public relations arm, all paid
for by corporate donors. The base of the party has no real say in the
leadership or the policies of the party, as Bernie Sanders and his
followers found out. They are props in the sterile political theater.
These
party elites, consumed by greed, myopia and a deep cynicism, have a
death grip on the political process. They’re not going to let it
go, even if it all implodes.
DN: Chris,
you worked for the New
York Times.
When was that, exactly?
CH: From
1990 to 2005.
DN: Since
you have some experience with that institution, what changes do you
see? We’ve stressed that it has cultivated a constituency among the
affluent upper-middle class.
CH: The New
York Times consciously
targets 30 million upper-middle class and affluent Americans. It is a
national newspaper; only about 11 percent of its readership is in New
York. It is very easy to see who the Times seeks
to reach by looking at its special sections on Home, Style, Business
or Travel. Here, articles explain the difficulty of maintaining, for
example, a second house in the Hamptons. It can do good investigative
work, although not often. It covers foreign affairs. But it reflects
the thinking of the elites. I read the Times every
day, maybe to balance it out with your web site.
DN: Well,
I hope more than balance it.
CH: Yes,
more than balance it. The Times was
always an elitist publication, but it wholly embraced the ideology of
neo-conservatism and neoliberalism at a time of financial distress,
when Abe Rosenthal was editor. He was the one who instituted the
special sections that catered to the elite. And he imposed a de facto
censorship to shut out critics of unfettered capitalism and
imperialism, such as Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn. He hounded out
reporters like Sydney Schanberg, who challenged the real estate
developers in New York, or Raymond Bonner, who reported the El
Mozote massacre
in El Salvador.
He
had lunch every week, along with his publisher, with William F.
Buckley. This pivot into the arms of the most retrograde forces of
corporate capitalism and proponents of American imperialism, for a
time, made the paper very profitable. Eventually, of course, the rise
of the internet, the loss of classified ads, which accounted for
about 40 percent of all newspaper revenue, crippled the Times as
it has crippled all newspapers. Newsprint has lost the monopoly that
once connected sellers with buyers. Newspapers are trapped in an old
system of information they call “objectivity” and “balance,”
formulae designed to cater to the powerful and the wealthy and
obscure the truth. But like all Byzantine courts, the Times will
go down clinging to its holy grail.
The
intellectual gravitas of the paper—in particular the Book Review
and the Week in Review—was obliterated by Bill Keller, himself a
neocon, who, as a columnist, had been a cheerleader for the war in
Iraq. He brought in figures like Sam Tanenhaus. At that point the
paper embraced, without any dissent, the utopian ideology of
neoliberalism and the primacy of corporate power as an inevitable
form of human progress. The Times,
along with business schools, economics departments at universities,
and the pundits promoted by the corporate state, propagated the
absurd idea that we would all be better off if we prostrated every
sector of society before the dictates of the marketplace. It takes a
unique kind of stupidity to believe this. You had students at Harvard
Business School doing case studies of Enron and its brilliant
business model, that is, until Enron collapsed and was exposed as a
gigantic scam. This was never, really, in the end, about ideas. It
was about unadulterated greed. It was pushed by the supposedly best
educated among us, like Larry Summers, which exposes the lie that
somehow our decline is due to deficient levels of education. It was
due to a bankrupt and amoral elite, and the criminal financial
institutions that make them rich.
Critical
thinking on the op-ed page, the Week in Review or the Book Review,
never very strong to begin with, evaporated under Keller.
Globalization was beyond questioning. Since the Times,
like all elite institutions, is a hermetically sealed echo chamber,
they do not realize how irrelevant they are becoming, or how
ridiculous they look. Thomas Friedman and David Brooks might as well
write for the Onion.
I
worked overseas. I wasn’t in the newsroom very much, but the paper
is a very anxiety-ridden place. The rules aren’t written on the
walls, but everyone knows, even if they do not articulate it, the
paper’s unofficial motto: Do
not significantly alienate those upon whom we depend for money and
access! You
can push against them some of the time. But if you are a serious
reporter, like Charlie Leduff, or Sydney Schanberg, who wants to give
a voice to people who don’t have a voice, to address issues of
race, class, capitalist exploitation or the crimes of empire, you
very swiftly become a management problem and get pushed out. Those
who rise in the organization and hold power are consummate
careerists. Their loyalty is to their advancement and the stature and
profitability of the institution, which is why the hierarchy of the
paper is filled with such mediocrities. Careerism is the paper’s
biggest Achilles heel. It does not lack for talent. But it does lack
for intellectual independence and moral courage. It reminds me of
Harvard.
DN: Let’s
come back to this question of the Russian hacking news story. You
raised the ability to generate a story, which has absolutely no
factual foundation, nothing but assertions by various intelligence
agencies, presented as an assessment that is beyond question. What is
your evaluation of this?
CH: The
commercial broadcast networks, and that includes CNN and MSNBC, are
not in the business of journalism. They hardly do any. Their
celebrity correspondents are courtiers to the elite. They speculate
about and amplify court gossip, which is all the accusations about
Russia, and they repeat what they are told to repeat. They sacrifice
journalism and truth for ratings and profit. These cable news shows
are one of many revenue streams in a corporate structure. They
compete against other revenue streams. The head of CNN, Jeff Zucker,
who helped create the fictional persona of Donald Trump on “Celebrity
Apprentice,” has turned politics on CNN into a 24-hour reality
show. All nuance, ambiguity, meaning and depth, along with verifiable
fact, are sacrificed for salacious entertainment. Lying, racism,
bigotry and conspiracy theories are given platforms and considered
newsworthy, often espoused by people whose sole quality is that they
are unhinged. It is news as burlesque.
I
was on the investigative team at the New
York Times during
the lead-up to the Iraq War. I was based in Paris and covered Al
Qaeda in Europe and the Middle East. Lewis Scooter Libby, Dick
Cheney, Richard Perle and maybe somebody in an intelligence agency,
would confirm whatever story the administration was attempting to
pitch. Journalistic rules at the Times say
you can’t go with a one-source story. But if you have three or four
supposedly independent sources confirming the same narrative, then
you can go with it, which is how they did it. The paper did not break
any rules taught at Columbia journalism school, but everything they
wrote was a lie.
The
whole exercise was farcical. The White House would leak some bogus
story to Judy Miller or Michael Gordon, and then go on the talk shows
to say, ‘as the Times reported….’ It gave these lies the veneer
of independence and reputable journalism. This was a massive
institutional failing, and one the paper has never faced.
DN: The
CIA pitches the story, and then the Times gets
the verification from those who pitch it to them.
CH: It’s
not always pitched. And not much of this came from the CIA. The CIA
wasn’t buying the “weapons of mass destruction” hysteria.
DN: It
goes the other way too?
CH: Sure.
Because if you’re trying to have access to a senior official,
you’ll constantly be putting in requests, and those officials will
decide when they want to see you. And when they want to see you, it’s
usually because they have something to sell you.
DN: The
media’s anti-Russia narrative has been embraced by large portions
of what presents itself as the “left.”
CH: Well,
don’t get me started on the American left. First of all, there is
no American left—not a left that has any kind of seriousness, that
understands political or revolutionary theories, that’s steeped in
economic study, that understands how systems of power work,
especially corporate and imperial power. The left is caught up in the
same kind of cults of personality that plague the rest of society. It
focuses on Trump, as if Trump is the central problem. Trump is a
product, a symptom of a failed system and dysfunctional democracy,
not the disease.
If
you attempt to debate most of those on the supposedly left, they
reduce discussion to this cartoonish vision of politics.
The
serious left in this country was decimated. It started with the
suppression of radical movements under Woodrow Wilson, then the “Red
Scares” in the 1920s, when they virtually destroyed our labor
movement and our radical press, and then all of the purges in the
1950s. For good measure, they purged the liberal class—look at what
they did to Henry Wallace—so that Cold War “liberals” equated
capitalism with democracy, and imperialism with freedom and liberty.
I lived in Switzerland and France. There are still residues of a
militant left in Europe, which gives Europeans something to build
upon. But here we almost have to begin from scratch.
I’ve
battled continuously with Antifa and the Black Bloc. I think they’re
kind of poster children for what I would consider phenomenal
political immaturity. Resistance is not a form of personal catharsis.
We are not fighting the rise of fascism in the 1930s. The corporate
elites we have to overthrow already hold power. And unless we build a
broad, popular resistance movement, which takes a lot of patient
organizing among working men and women, we are going to be steadily
ground down.
So
Trump’s not the problem. But just that sentence alone is going to
kill most discussions with people who consider themselves part of the
left.
The
corporate state has made it very hard to make a living if you hold
fast to this radical critique. You will never get tenure. You
probably won’t get academic appointments. You won’t win prizes.
You won’t get grants. The New
York Times,
if they review your book, will turn it over to a dutiful mandarin
like George Packer to trash it—as he did with my last book. The
elite schools, and I have taught as a visiting professor at a few of
them, such as Princeton and Columbia, replicate the structure and
goals of corporations. If you want to even get through a doctoral
committee, much less a tenure committee, you must play it really,
really safe. You must not challenge the corporate-friendly stance
that permeates the institution and is imposed through corporate
donations and the dictates of wealthy alumni. Half of the members of
most of these trustee boards should be in prison!
Speculation
in the 17th century in Britain was a crime. Speculators were hanged.
And today they run the economy and the country. They have used the
capturing of wealth to destroy the intellectual, cultural and
artistic life in the country and snuff out our democracy. There is a
word for these people: traitors.
DN: What
about the impact that you’ve seen of identity politics in America?
CH: Well,
identity politics defines the immaturity of the left. The corporate
state embraced identity politics. We saw where identity politics got
us with Barack Obama, which is worse than nowhere. He was, as Cornel
West said, a black mascot for Wall Street, and now he is going around
to collect his fees for selling us out.
My
favorite kind of anecdotal story about identity politics: Cornel West
and I, along with others, led a march of homeless people on the
Democratic National Convention session in Philadelphia. There was an
event that night. It was packed with hundreds of people, mostly angry
Bernie Sanders supporters. I had been asked to come speak. And in the
back room, there was a group of younger activists, one who said,
“We’re not letting the white guy go first.” Then he got up and
gave a speech about how everybody now had to vote for Hillary
Clinton. That’s kind of where identity politics gets you. There is
a big difference between shills for corporate capitalism and
imperialism, like Corey Booker and Van Jones, and true radicals like
Glen Ford and Ajamu Baraka. The corporate state carefully selects and
promotes women, or people of color, to be masks for its cruelty and
exploitation.
It
is extremely important, obviously, that those voices are heard, but
not those voices that have sold out to the power elite. The feminist
movement is a perfect example of this. The old feminism, which I
admire, the Andrea Dworkin kind of feminism, was about empowering
oppressed women. This form of feminism did not try to justify
prostitution as sex work. It knew that it is just as wrong to abuse a
woman in a sweatshop as it is in the sex trade. The new form of
feminism is an example of the poison of neoliberalism. It is about
having a woman CEO or woman president, who will, like Hillary
Clinton, serve the systems of oppression. It posits that prostitution
is about choice. What woman, given a stable income and security,
would choose to be raped for a living? Identity politics is
anti-politics.
DN: I
believe you spoke at a Socialist Convergence conference where you
criticized Obama and Sanders, and you were shouted down.
CH: Yes,
I don’t even remember. I’ve been shouted down criticizing Obama
in many places, including Berkeley. I have had to endure this for a
long time as a supporter and speech writer for Ralph Nader. People
don’t want the illusion of their manufactured personalities, their
political saviors, shattered; personalities created by public
relations industries. They don’t want to do the hard work of truly
understanding how power works and organizing to bring it down.
DN: You
mentioned that you have been reading the World
Socialist Web Sitefor
some time. You know we are quite outside of that framework.
CH: I’m
not a Marxist. I’m not a Trotskyist. But I like the site. You
report on important issues seriously and in a way a lot of other
sites don’t. You care about things that are important to me—mass
incarceration, the rights and struggles of the working class and the
crimes of empire. I have read the site for a long time.
DN: Much
of what claims to be left—that is, the pseudo-left—reflects the
interests of the affluent middle class.
CH: Precisely.
When everybody was, you know, pushing for multiculturalism in lead
institutions, it really meant filtering a few people of color or
women into university departments or newsrooms, while carrying out
this savage economic assault against the working poor and, in
particular, poor people of color in deindustrialized pockets of the
United States. Very few of these multiculturalists even noticed. I am
all for diversity, but not when it is devoid of economic justice.
Cornel West has been one of the great champions, not only of the
black prophetic tradition, the most important intellectual tradition
in our history, but the clarion call for justice in all its forms.
There is no racial justice without economic justice. And while these
elite institutions sprinkled a few token faces into their hierarchy,
they savaged the working class and the poor, especially poor people
of color.
Much
of the left was fooled by the identity politics trick. It was a
boutique activism. It kept the corporate system, the one we must
destroy, intact. It gave it a friendly face.
DN: The World
Socialist Web Site has
made the issue of inequality a central focus of its coverage.
CH: That’s
why I read it and like it.
DN: Returning
to the Russia issue, where do you see this going? How seriously do
you see this assault on democratic rights? We call this the new
McCarthyism. Is that, in your view, a legitimate analogy?
CH: Yes,
of course it’s the new McCarthyism. But let’s acknowledge how
almost irrelevant our voices are.
DN: I
don’t agree with you on that.
CH: Well,
irrelevant in the sense that we’re not heard within the mainstream.
When I go to Canada I am on the CBC on prime time. The same is true
in France. That never happens here. PBS and NPR are never going to do
that. Nor are they going to do that for any other serious critic of
capitalism or imperialism.
If
there is a debate about attacking Syria, for example, it comes down
to bombing Syria or bombing Syria and sending in troops, as if these
are the only two options. Same with health care. Do we have
Obamacare, a creation of the Heritage Foundation and the
pharmaceutical and insurance industries, or no care? Universal health
care for all is not discussed. So we are on the margins. But that
does not mean we are not dangerous. Neoliberalism and globalization
are zombie ideologies. They have no credibility left. The scam has
been found out. The global oligarchs are hated and reviled. The elite
has no counterargument to our critique. So they can’t afford to
have us around. As the power elite becomes more frightened, they’re
going to use harsher forms of control, including the blunt instrument
of censorship and violence.
DN: I
think it can be a big mistake to be focused on the sense of isolation
or marginalization. I’ll make a prediction. You will have, probably
sooner than you think, more requests for interviews and television
time. We are in a period of colossal political breakdown. We are
going to see, more and more, the emergence of the working class as a
powerful political force.
CH: That’s
why we are a target. With the bankruptcy of the ruling ideology, and
the bankruptcy of the American liberal class and the American left,
those who hold fast to intellectual depth and an examination of
systems of power, including economics, culture and politics, have to
be silenced
The
ruling elites, who grasp that the reigning ideology of global
corporate capitalism and imperial expansion no longer has moral or
intellectual credibility, have mounted a campaign to shut down the
platforms given to their critics. The attacks within this campaign
include blacklisting, censorship and slandering dissidents as foreign
agents for Russia and purveyors of “fake news.”
No
dominant class can long retain control when the credibility of the
ideas that justify its existence evaporates. It is forced, at that
point, to resort to crude forms of coercion, intimidation and
censorship. This ideological collapse in the United States has
transformed those of us who attack the corporate state into a potent
threat, not because we reach large numbers of people, and certainly
not because we spread Russian propaganda, but because the elites no
longer have a plausible counterargument.
The
elites face an unpleasant choice. They could impose harsh controls to
protect the status quo or veer leftward toward socialism to
ameliorate the mounting economic and political injustices endured by
most of the population. But a move leftward, essentially reinstating
and expanding the New Deal programs they have destroyed, would impede
corporate power and corporate profits. So instead the elites,
including the Democratic Party leadership, have decided to quash
public debate. The tactic they are using is as old as the
nation-state—smearing critics as traitors who are in the service of
a hostile foreign power. Tens of thousands of people of conscience
were blacklisted in this way during the Red Scares of the 1920s and
1950s. The current hyperbolic and relentless focus on Russia,
embraced with gusto by “liberal” media outlets such as The New
York Times and MSNBC, has unleashed what some have called a virulent
“New McCarthyism.”.....
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