We keep on hearing from Bill McKIbben (whose 350.org is financed by corporate interests like the Rockefeller Foundation) and other methane deniers that we have "got to get back to 350.ppm" - the level indicated as being the maximum possible level of CO2 in an off-the-uff comment by James Hansen.
How is this possible even if by some magic the politicians and corporations all started listening and all our wish lists were fulfilled.
Not if this 2008 article, (when I suspect there was more striaghtforward honesty about these questions), is correct.
How is this possible even if by some magic the politicians and corporations all started listening and all our wish lists were fulfilled.
Not if this 2008 article, (when I suspect there was more striaghtforward honesty about these questions), is correct.
Carbon
is forever
Carbon
dioxide emissions and their associated warming could linger for
millennia, according to some climate scientists. Mason Inman looks at
why the fallout from burning fossil fuels could last far longer than
expected
20
November, 2008
After
our fossil fuel blow-out, how long will the CO2 hangover
last? And what about the global fever that comes along with it? These
sound like simple questions, but the answers are complex — and not
well understood or appreciated outside a small group of climate
scientists. Popular books on climate change — even those written by
scientists — if they mention the lifetime of CO2 at
all, typically say it lasts "a century or more"1 or
"more than a hundred years".
"That's
complete nonsense," says Ken Caldeira of the Carnegie
Institution for Science in Stanford, California. It doesn't help that
the summaries in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC)
reports have confused the issue, allege Caldeira and colleagues in an
upcoming paper in Annual
Reviews of Earth and Planetary Sciences2.
Now he and a few other climate scientists are trying to spread the
word that human-generated CO2,
and the warming it brings, will linger far into the future — unless
we take heroic measures to pull the gas out of the air.
University
of Chicago oceanographer David Archer, who led the study with
Caldeira and others, is credited with doing more than anyone to show
how long CO2 from
fossil fuels will last in the atmosphere. As he puts it in his new
book The
Long Thaw,
"The lifetime of fossil fuel CO2 in
the atmosphere is a few centuries, plus 25 percent that lasts
essentially forever. The next time you fill your tank, reflect upon
this"3.
"The
climatic impacts of releasing fossil fuel CO2 to the
atmosphere will last longer than Stonehenge," Archer writes.
"Longer than time capsules, longer than nuclear waste, far
longer than the age of human civilization so far."
The
effects of carbon dioxide on the atmosphere drop off so slowly that
unless we kick our "fossil fuel addiction", to use George
W. Bush's phrase, we could force Earth out of its regular pattern of
freezes and thaws that has lasted for more than a million years. "If
the entire coal reserves were used," Archer writes, "then
glaciation could be delayed for half a million years."
Cloudy reports
"The
longevity of CO2 in the atmosphere is probably the
least well understood part of the global warming issue," says
paleoclimatologist Peter Fawcett of the University of New Mexico.
"And it's not because it isn't well documented in the IPCC
report. It is, but it is buried under a lot of other material."
It
doesn't help, though, that past reports from the UN panel of climate
experts have made misleading statements about the lifetime of CO2,
argue Archer, Caldeira and colleagues. The first assessment report,
in 1990, said that CO2's lifetime is 50 to 200 years. The
reports in 1995 and 2001 revised this down to 5 to 200 years. Because
the oceans suck up huge amounts of the gas each year, the average
CO2 molecule does spend about 5 years in the
atmosphere. But the oceans also release much of that CO2 back
to the air, such that man-made emissions keep the atmosphere's
CO2 levels elevated for millennia. Even as CO2 levels
drop, temperatures take longer to fall, according to recent studies.
"The
climatic impacts of releasing fossil fuel CO2 to the
atmosphere will last longer than Stonehenge, longer than time
capsules, longer than nuclear waste, far longer than the age of human
civilization so far."
David
Archer
Earlier
reports from the panel did include caveats such as "No single
lifetime can be defined for CO2 because of the
different rates of uptake by different removal processes." The
IPCC's latest assessment, however, avoids the problems of earlier
reports by including similar caveats while simply refusing to give a
numeric estimate of the lifetime for carbon dioxide. Contributing
author Richard Betts of the UK Met Office Hadley Centre says the
panel made this change in recognition of the fact that "the
lifetime estimates cited in previous reports had been potentially
misleading, or at least open to misinterpretation."
Instead
of pinning an absolute value on the atmospheric lifetime of CO2,
the 2007 report describes its gradual dissipation over time, saying,
"About 50% of a CO2 increase will be removed
from the atmosphere within 30 years, and a further 30% will be
removed within a few centuries. The remaining 20% may stay in the
atmosphere for many thousands of years." But if cumulative
emissions are high, the portion remaining in the atmosphere could be
higher than this, models suggest. Overall, Caldeira argues, "the
whole issue of our long-term commitment to climate change has not
really ever been adequately addressed by the IPCC."
The
lasting effects of CO2 also have big implications for
energy policies, argues James Hansen, director of NASA's Goddard
Institute of Space Studies. "Because of this long CO2lifetime,
we cannot solve the climate problem by slowing down emissions by 20%
or 50% or even 80%. It does not matter much whether the CO2 is
emitted this year, next year, or several years from now," he
wrote in a letter this August. "Instead ... we must identify a
portion of the fossil fuels that will be left in the ground, or
captured upon emission and put back into the ground."
Slow on the uptake
Unlike
other human-generated greenhouse gases, CO2 gets
taken up by a variety of different processes, some fast and some
slow. This is what makes it so hard to pin a single number, or even a
range, on CO2's
lifetime. The majority of the CO2 we
emit will be soaked up by the ocean over a few hundred years, first
being absorbed into the surface waters, and eventually into deeper
waters, according to a long-term climate model run by Archer. Though
the ocean is vast, the surface waters can absorb only so much CO2,
and currents have to bring up fresh water from the deep before the
ocean can swallow more. Then, on a much longer timescale of several
thousand years, most of the remaining CO2 gets
taken up as the gas dissolves into the ocean and reacts with chalk in
ocean sediments. But this process would never soak up enough CO2 to
return atmospheric levels to what they were before industrialization,
shows oceanographer Toby Tyrrell of the UK's National Oceanography
Centre, Southampton, in a recent paper4.
Finally,
the slowest process of all is rock weathering, during which
atmospheric CO2 reacts
with water to form a weak acid that dissolves rocks. It's thought
that this creates minerals such as magnesium carbonate that lock away
the greenhouse gas. But according to simulations by Archer and
others, it would take hundreds of thousands of years for these
processes to bring CO2 levels
back to pre-industrial values (Fig.
1).
Figure 1: Long lifetime.
Model
simulation of atmospheric CO2 concentration
for 40,000 years following after a large CO2 release
from combustion of fossil fuels. Different fractions of the released
gas recover on different timescales. Reproduced from The
Long Thaw3.
Several
long-term climate models, though their details differ, all agree that
anthropogenic CO2 takes an enormously long time to
dissipate. If all recoverable fossil fuels were burnt up using
today's technologies, after 1,000 years the air would still hold
around a third to a half of the CO2 emissions. "For
practical purposes, 500 to 1000 years is 'forever,'" as Hansen
and colleagues put it. In this time, civilizations can rise and fall,
and the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets could melt
substantially, raising sea levels enough to transform the face of the
planet.
New stable state
The
warming from our CO2 emissions
would last effectively forever, too. A recent study by Caldeira and
Damon Matthews of Concordia University in Montreal found that
regardless of how much fossil fuel we burn, once we stop, within a
few decades the planet will settle at a new, higher temperature5.
As Caldeira explains, "It just increases for a few decades and
then stays there" for at least 500 years — the length of time
they ran their model. "That was not at all the result I was
expecting," he says.
But
this was not some peculiarity of their model, as the same behaviour
shows up in an extremely simplified model of the climate6 —
the only difference between the models being the final temperature of
the planet. Archer and Victor Brovkin of the Potsdam Institute for
Climate Impact Research in Germany found much the same result from
much longer-term simulations6.
Their model shows that whether we emit a lot or a little bit of CO2,
temperatures will quickly rise and plateau, dropping by only about 1
°C over 12,000 years.
"The
longevity of CO2 in the atmosphere is probably the
least well understood part of the global warming issue."
Peter
Fawcett
Because
of changes in the Earth's orbit, ice sheets might start to grow from
the poles in a few thousand years — but there's a good chance our
greenhouse gas emissions already may prevent that, Archer argues.
Even with the amount of CO2 emitted so far, another
ice age will almost certainly start in about 50,000 years. But if we
burn all remaining fossil fuels, it could be more than half a million
years before the Earth has another ice age, Archer says.
The
long-term effects of our emissions might seem far removed. But as
Tyrrell says, "It is a little bit scary, if you think about all
the concerns we have about radioactive wastes produced by nuclear
power. The potential impacts from emitting CO2 to the
atmosphere are even longer than that." But there's still hope
for avoiding these long-term effects if technologies that are now on
the drawing board can be scaled up affordably. "If civilization
was able to develop ways of scrubbing CO2 out of the
atmosphere," Tyrrell says, "it's possible you could reverse
this CO2 hangover."
References
Here is Bill McKibben "doing the math" with Thom Hartmann to ave civilisation.
I used to listen to this stuff to get some confirmation of what I knew to be true - in vain.
A more realistic appraisal would not appeal to his corporate sponsors
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6uVnyjTb58 - Ozzie Zehner at Google.
ReplyDeleteDon't know if you've posted this previously, but this talk by Ozzie Zehner based on his book, "Green Illusions" and give at google focuses on why replacing fossil fuel with sustainable energy from solar and wind is nothing more than a fantasy.
Zehner's information has been stated elsewhere, but he seems to be the one most in the spotlight. If the solar and wind contingent would understand that full life cycle of these "sustainable" and "fossil fuel free (it's not)" energy sources the reality of the situation we really face might be clearer, but I highly doubt it.
That this talk was given at Google where technology rules is the height of irony. Like telling a drug addict he can't have their fix anymore.
I've asked Alex Smith numerous times to contact Zehner and have him on the show. Unfortunately he's not acted on that yet. Actually having Ozzie and Scribbler (whom Alex has just contacted again to be on the show) would at least give two sides to the situation (as if there were two sides).
Thank you for that information. This name is, in fact new to me andd Inshall try to find the interview you refer to. It would be great to have Robertscribller interviewed - couldn't really work out why not and just put if down to someone keeping a low profile, not wanting I attract personal attacks.
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